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Comment by Lee Daniel Hughes on July 29, 2010 at 16:55

Great stuff, Dave, you´re absolotely right of course.
The other thing that the referendum boils down to, more practically than about voting systems, is this: do people want coalition governments to be more likely in the future?
This is what the AV referendum is really about. The result of the referendum therefore is more likely going to be also a vote of confidence in the Coalition itself, as AV makes coalitions more likely.
Are people happy with the Coalition as it is, and how will they feel about it next May? This really all depends on how the Lds and Conservatives work things out in government. In other words, ıf the Conservatives want a "no" vote in May, all they have to do it make sure that they dominate their LibDem partners and make LDs seem irrelevant (according to some polls, people are crediting the Conservatives at the expense of the LDs, so on that score, the signs aren´t good).
This makes the LibDem position all the more difficult, as it´s really up to the LibDems to show that a Coalition really can work, so that enough people have confidence in coalitons working in order to seriously consider changing the voting system.
I´m not trying to be negative, by the way: if Cameron and Clegg are serious about making the coalition effective (Clegg obviously is; Cameron seems to be) then that gives a good sign for how the referendum might go in May. But it also depends on each partner´s party - and regarding the Conservatives, many of them would love to see the Coalition fail.

Comment by Dave Thawley on July 4, 2010 at 0:19

I've just posted this on my facebook. If you want electoral reform (and I'm guessing that is most of you because we are lib dems) why not do the same (or use your own words) Lets try and get the truth out about AV before murdoch start to brainwash people.

Please pass this message on. Its not the usual chain e-mail that promises eternal love and peace if you pass it on to 10 friends by midnight or eternal damnation if you don't. It does promise though that if you do pass it on you may be part of a movement which changes our country for the good.

It sounds like we have got the chance to at last get something more like democracy for ourselves. AV (the proposal on the referendum next may) isn't as good as STV (proportional representation) but it is a start and it is really far far better than our current system which can give a party with 35% of the vote absolute power over us all. I've looked into this a lot and I am convinced. I remember the outcry during the last election when people got locked out of polling stations. They were angry and saying that they were denied their democratic right. This is true but what they didn't know is that statistically their vote had never countered when they had been able to cast it in previous elections. If you don't this see my little example at the end of the letter.

I know that we are going to hear a lot from loads of rich people and corrupt MPs about why it will be best for us (i.e. them) to keep the system as it is so they can carry on doing what they are doing. For example, the no campaign will see the billionaire Murdoch attempting to manipulate his newspaper readers into believing that what we have is better than what we can have. He will do this by misinformation and focusing in on the slight negatives but will not be telling them about how unfair the current system is. The No campaign haven't got the support of millionaires or billionaires, all as we have is the truth (AV on balance really is far better than our current system and it will change things in a way which gives us more power over the country). The way we can get this message out to people is mainly be by word of mouth. If you don't know about AV or STV then you can find out about it by going to the electoral reform society website or by searching vote for a change on face book. The mechanics (but not the benefits) are shown on this great little video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7ydAowkesA.
Its our country and we have a chance of starting to take power back from these corrupt Muppet mps who lie constantly and do things for their own agendas but which most of us don't want..

Please pass this message on to other people. The one sure way of changing this voting system is by people learning the truth about what they read and this may only happen if they know that what they are listening to from most of the press is propaganda to manipulate them . In many cases the only way they are going to know that is if they hear the truth from other sources (i.e. you and me) so please e-mail this out to everyone you know and paste it to your facebook wall.

other useful links
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/voteforachange
http://www.takebackparliament.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7ydAowkesA.
http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/


If you are convinced and want to stand up against murdoch and his mates why not lob a couple of quid into the pot of votforachange. It is more important to pass the message on than donate money but if you want to help support the campaign positively I am sure they will use every penny for our good.


`

Sorry for the rant, I'll keep them infrequent :-)
` `
My demo election using our current system

constituency 1 – 30001 people voted. 10001 people voted conners, 10000 voted labour, 10000 voted lib dems. How many votes really counted – correct answer 10001. Only 1/3 of the peoples votes meant anything. The 20000 who voted from labour and lib dems may as well have stayed at home because under first past the post winner takes all even though there were twice as many people not wanting the winner their votes don't count for anything.

Constituency 2 – 50001 people voted – 23000 voted labour , 16000 lib dems and 11000 conners. How many peoples votes counted this time – correct answer 16001. With these figures less than 1 in 3 peoples votes counted and the rest may as well have stayed at home. Why – well although 23000 people voted labour a lot of this was a wasted voted. They only needed to beat the lib-dems but 16001 to get the ticket to counter the lib-dems and all of the other votes didn't count. Lib-dems and labour voters again are completely disenfranchised by the process as in constituency 1.

Under AV at least 50% of the people will need to vote for a person before they get in, this is far far better. It will destroy safe seats and will put more pressure of politicians to do what we want because unpopular MPs will be removed in the voting process (see AV video on youtube).

Also in the last election

34989 votes were needed to win one conservative seat.
33350 votes were needed to win one labour seats.
119789 votes were needed to win one lib-dem seat
250000 green votes were cast and they got one seat

This is not democracy. I may not agree with other people's views but I do believe that each of us should have an equal say and an equal weighting in what goes on. AV will move is in the right direction.

Comment by Liz W on May 26, 2010 at 10:59

The About This Campaign page explains which organisations are behind Take Back Parliament and how to contact them. As for how to encourge others - join the Facebook group, tweet about it, organise your own events, etc.

Comment by Lee Daniel Hughes on May 26, 2010 at 10:45

Here's the question: who's organising these events? How can we encourage others to do more to hightlight the issue if electoral reform to more people? The parliamentary system must be "broken", in Nick Clegg's words, if Lab-Con get 65% of the vote, but 90% of the seats!

Comment by Liz W on May 26, 2010 at 9:27

Take Back Parliament also has one in King's Lynn advertised on the front page at the moment. They seem to be quite active in general.

Comment by Lee Daniel Hughes on May 26, 2010 at 8:23

I'm interested to know what developments are happening regarding events promoting electoral reform.
As far as I can see, there is only the event in Cardiff. Are there others being planned?
If such events were organised, then the public would have a much greater opportunity to discuss these issues openly, as well as encouraging younger people to engage more in politics.

Comment by Richard on April 19, 2010 at 9:39

If the UK National Debt was laid out in pound coins it would cover 3.23 Earths!

Comment by Chris Stevens on February 1, 2010 at 4:55

How grassroots saved the Liberals
http://www.libdemvoice.org/mark-egan-coming-into-focus-17370.html

1974 Deja Vu - Liberal manifesto
http://www.libdemvoice.org/dj-vu-all-over-again-what-the-1974-liber...

Comment by Chris Stevens on January 9, 2010 at 23:52

Lib Dem Voice - Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/user/libdemvoice

Comment by Chris Stevens on December 20, 2009 at 1:22

for anyone interested

http://www.libdemvoice.org/engage

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