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Green Liberal Democrats

This is the official discussion group of the Green Liberal Democrats - a recognised Associated Organisation within the party.

Website: http://www.greenlibdems.org.uk/index.html
Location: Planet Earth - the only one we have
Members: 34
Latest Activity: Feb 8, 2013

The Green Liberal Democrats seek to promote the cause of environmentalism within and outside the Party. The Liberal Democrats have a proud record of being the greenist major political party: we aim to ensure it stays that way!

We have a facebook group as well

Discussion Forum

Just learning how to use ACT 1 Reply

Where do you put your own text reply?Where is the "submit" button?Continue

Started by Philip Geoffrey Thompson. Last reply by Paul Luton May 6, 2012.

Challenge Article "Dump fuel duty and have carbon tax instead" 3 Replies

I assume Simon intended his article to be provocative - it certainly had the steam coming from my ears - the problem is that Challenge is not a good vehicle for discussion.1) "tax motorists"  - there…Continue

Started by Paul Luton. Last reply by Philip Geoffrey Thompson May 6, 2012.

Coalition cycling investment 2 Replies

An interesting collision in your news items :Julian Huppert  : "It is absolutely essential people should be able to walk to work or cycle to school in a safe environment. The extra £8m for Sustrans…Continue

Started by Paul Luton. Last reply by Paul Luton Feb 19, 2012.

Article on Potential of Solar Energy 2 Replies

This link caught my eye and it seemed fit to share it as widely as possible: …Continue

Tags: Security, Oil, Energy, Solar

Started by Max Marioni. Last reply by Max Marioni Apr 12, 2011.

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Comment by Paul Luton on September 19, 2011 at 16:08
I agree with jonathan about the desirability of small, light, low-powered electric vehicles. (perhaps provide parking spaces in cities exclusively for the use of ) Won't get me off my bike though - I need the exercise.
Comment by jonathan thomson on September 18, 2011 at 23:11

oops, bad ending to the last post, I wanted to say: I agree with paul when he said "provide good alternatives to car ownership (public transport, cycle friendly streets, even car clubs)"

Comment by jonathan thomson on September 18, 2011 at 23:08

"parking spaces are usually created at the expense of some other land use"....well, underground parking springs to mind. Already extensively used in mainland europe!

I would like to surgest that if (understandably) people want creature comforts and not be shoe-horned into a metro carriage or freeze their nuts off on a push bike in December on their way to work in the morning, what about creating the legal and physical infrustructure for a new class of vehicle. Small, light, low powered and cheap, Sort of half way between a car and a bike, think G-wiz roads/parking spaces/charge points. Ideally transforming the congestion zone into sole use by these vehicles. Is there any point in having heavy cars with empty seats sitting long traffic jams when they may actually be moving if they were all smaller.

I agree with paul about the "

Comment by Paul Luton on September 14, 2011 at 13:02
No - I was suggesting that planning cities in such a way as to provide good alternatives to car ownership (public transport, cycle friendly streets, even car clubs) is healthier, greener and as least as liberal as planning cities in such a way as to maximise the number of parking spaces. I hope that you accept that parking spaces are usually created at the expense of some other land use.
Comment by Simon Oliver on September 13, 2011 at 22:54
Seriously - you think restricting the number of parking spaces is the same as giving people the freedom not to need a car? Sorry, but I find that kind of logical contortion impossible to follow.
Comment by Paul Luton on September 13, 2011 at 21:42

But unfortunately space is often an issue. If we want to provide as many homes as possible in a convenient location and to provide green space maybe parking space should not be a priority. In a remote rural location a car may be a necessity, in a city it shouldn't be. Giving people the freedom not to need a car seems fully liberal   As Liberals we are too often inclined to assume that you can have all sorts of things that are incompatible - that is not subtlety that is woolliness.

Electric vehicles definitely reduce local pollution but they do nothing to reduce congestion and the discouragement of active means of travel. How far they can be considered low-carbon depends on how the electricity is generated and how much CO2 is generated in manufacturing the batteries etc.

Comment by Simon Oliver on September 13, 2011 at 20:33

Quality of life is an issue, and while it may be a green dream to abolish the automobile and make everyone use buses, it is not and never will be a liberal policy. It can't be, since it is not liberal.

It's my personal conviction that we will only solve the climate change problem, and the myriad other problems with humanity's stewardship of the planet, when we, as environmentalists, accept the reality of human nature. Our solutions for climate change should be about making people's lives better as well as low-carbon, and not condemning people for wanting convenience and minor luxuries like parking spaces.

We need to offer a future that is better than this one in every way that matters to the people we are offering it to. That doesn't mean driving them out of their cars - it means accepting that people want cars and offering them a more attractive car that is also low carbon. It doesn't mean making life hell for anyone who owns a car, it means accepting that people expect life to get better, not worse, and planning developments with adequate parking facilities that cater to electric vehicles.

 

Comment by Paul Luton on September 13, 2011 at 20:03

Sorry I didn't intend to be aggressive.  I understood that Green Liberal Democrats seek to promote the cause of environmentalism within and outside the Party and this story came to me via the GLD. If the subtleties of policy making lead to us arguing that black is white perhaps we are being just a tad too subtle.

 

 

 

 

 

Comment by Simon Oliver on August 17, 2011 at 22:58

Paul C - please could you try to make your comments a tad less aggressive? Your certainty and black and white approach to things leave no room for debate, shades of meaning and the subtleties of policy making. Please remember that this is a place for liberal democrats to get together and talk, and most of this party are of the opinion that participating in democracy is worthwhile.

 

"we have two ears and only one mouth, so we should listen twice as much as we talk" 

 

Comment by Paul Luton on August 17, 2011 at 14:03

Councillor objects to development of 20 flats with just 5 parking s...

 

There was me thinking that this was a Tory councillor stuck in the 60's "predict and provide mode" and that Lib Dems would be supporting the provision of cycle routes and public transport so that people living in central Cardiff don't need to own a car.

 

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